The Fox Round Two

9/30/2011 The Lady 13 Comments

Women and men of the blogging world, my summer dating sabbatical has ended (it has been the greatest thing that has happened to me since my mission) and so I care to write about a story that has been bothering me for sometime. A few weeks ago I was dating this girl. We shall call her The Artist. The Artist and I got along fairly well. We went on a few dates. Things went well. We held hands on the second date and cuddled on the third. We went on another date and watched some movie. After the date was over I went in to kiss this girl. She then turned her her head to the side and my lips landed square on her cheek. Now this has happened to me another time. About a year ago, The Young Fox had taken a girl out seven times and finally had the courage to go in for the kiss. The same thing happened. The younger and less experienced Fox was quite embarrassed and ran off and hit his head against the wall as he tried to fall asleep that night.

However, when I was a child, I spake like a child. I thought like a child. I dated like a child. Now that I am a man I date like a man.

The first time I was fooled I thought it was shame on me. However, after subsequent dating experiences the second time I was fooled I know it is shame on the woman. Now if this was the first or second date, I could understand where The Artist was coming from. Had I not cuddled with her nor held hand, then I could understand how reasonable it was, but for the love of all that is holy when I show interest and go on four or five dates with a woman, that woman should be expecting that something is going to happen. If she is not then she is brain dead. Women of the world if you are not interested in a man have the decency to save him the time and the money and just dodge him or flat out tell him no. If your kind of interested don't place yourself in a situation where you could be kissed. If you have been on five dates with him and place yourself in a situation where you are gonna get kissed, its your own dang fault.

Enjoy your splendid week.
The sincerely unembarrassed,
Mr. Fox

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wow. just wow. I sincerely can't even believe I just read that. You surely cannot be serious in your sentiments towards the girl.

Just because we as girls are willing to go on dates with you, just because things are going well, and just because we held your hand does NOT mean we are ready to kiss you on the 5th date. Kissing is FAR and above hand holding and not all of us are ready for it right away. Just because you are ready does not mean we are and just because we are not does not mean we are leading you on.

Get over yourself.

Anonymous said...

^ ouch....
that's harsh.

can't we all just go back to being honest? I mean seriously. Women, take into account that MEN DO NOT THINK THE SAME WE DO. Of course they're going to be expecting the physical things to continue if you let them begin in the first place. This makes logical sense to them.
Just because we naturally tend to over-analyze everything and every move doesn't mean that men do. If you don't want the physical things to continue, either say something from the get go about "wanting to go slow", or don't let it happen.

Anonymous said...

I can't help but partially agree with comment-er #1. I am the kind of girl who doesn't kiss boys unless I am dating them. For me kissing is a whole different ballgame, one that involves commitment!
Rather than being offended, be a man and ask why she didn't let her kiss you. Chances are, if she's said yes to 5 days she likes you! If she didn't, she'd find an excuse not to go. Also you must like her because you attempted to kiss her. I would vote that you not write her off just because she gave you the cheek!

Anonymous said...

Sounds like both of you could work on your communication skills. To a lot of LDS women, as the one above, a kiss is only to be shared in a committed relationship. I strongly suggest a conversation about why she turned her head. If you feel close enough to her to kiss her, you should be able to talk about important issues.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Fox, while this is only your second post, I find you rather detracting from the wonderful reading that is The Anti-Austen. Control your hormones - is all you want from the girl a kiss? If that kiss is denied you, is there nothing else about the girl that keeps you attracted? If so, you shouldn't be dating her in the first place. Relationships - especially unofficial, non-committed ones - are about way more than the physical aspects. Another anonymous above was correct in saying kissing is a totally different level - I will hold hands with a boy on a date, and even let him cuddle with me, but unless I know for sure it is going somewhere serious, no kiss. So slow down, if you actually like the girl, giver her another chance. And yeah, man up and ask her why she didn't want to, rather than bashing her on a dating blog.

Anonymous said...

To the anonymous above me (and the others as well):

1. Do we not see the women of this blog bashing on the men they date to some degree? We do. So when a guy faces a frustration and writes about it, deal with it.

2. Guys think differently from girls(thank you Anonymous #1 for being the only one to realize that). Affection is interpreted differently between the two genders even while having the same underlying good feelings and good intentions.

3. Where in the world did he say that he was only interested in kissing her? (Hint: he didn't). If a guy was only interested in kissing, he would look for much easier women. You can gleam his interest based on his willingness to go on five dates with you in the first place.

4. Most women don't tell men what part of the relationship they're ready for and when. Men have to guess and read "hints". Most men are not good hint readers and most women are not good hint senders. Both genders think they are better than they are at these respective activities.

In short, a man makes an investment of time, money, mental capacity (a very limited resource!) and emotion (they exist in men too, men just don't want you to know) and it doesn't pan out as expected. It sucks. He should be allowed to express his frustration. After all, dating brings a lot of it into a person's life.

Figure out what happened. Talk to her. Or a mutual friend if you have one (mutual friends are GOLD). Ask her out again (don't leave me hanging - I defended you). She said yes five times and this incident demonstrates that she can say no, so she must actually like you.

-Anonymous #5

P.S. Jessica...way too harsh.

Emily Hodgen said...

Okay this ended up way longer than I planned, but here we go. I agree that men and women's minds work differently and it's important to remember. Also, consider this: when the girls post their frustrations about dating and delineate all the things the men are doing wrong, we celebrate what they have written and think, "Oh my gosh, WHAT are these boys thinking?" But when we do get a male writer who gives us at least one version of what they are thinking, we incriminate him for it? It doesn't quite seem fair.

And really, as this comment thread shows perfectly, women all have very different ideas about kissing because we are emotion based, whereas men are physically/logically based (I'm speaking in general terms). We are different but complimentary. Which means that once you find the right one it's pretty great but that the search for a right one can be pretty awful and usually equals a lot of stumbling around and miscommunication. Are we suggesting that, rather than going for a kiss when the moment seems right, men should instead sit us down on the first or second date and say, "Okay, let's get this straight: upon which date are you willing to kiss me?" Pretty romantic, huh? No. So there's going to be missteps along the way and men and women will feel frustrated for different reasons. Just because a guy tries to kiss a girl and then discovers that she's not ready for it and he's not sure why does not make him a pig. And when a girl has her own individual value system when it comes to kissing and she is a slower mover does not make her stupid or a prude. It just means that we are different and the differences aren't always that obvious.

What's the solution? I'm not sure, this is a problem that has literally been going on for thousands of years. But I think we could all give each other the benefit of the doubt a little more. Is it always warranted? No, but it makes life a lot happier if we don't spend our time dwelling on the faults of the opposite sex so much.

So Fox, I appreciate your point of view and I think we can all learn from each other. In my opinion, I think you have one of two choices. It's obvious that the girl doesn't hate you, or she wouldn't have gone to the cuddle stage (I don't think, at least) so you could either talk to her (as others have suggested) and get to the bottom of the issue and potentially learn something about yourself or her or girls in general, and maybe even continue a relationship with this girl. This is the harder but possibly more rewarding path. Or you can move on, don't call her again, and feel like she led you on. She will move on thinking that you are a jerk and stopped calling just because she wouldn't kiss you. And dating life in Provo as we know it will continue as always. This will be easier but you might miss out on something. Either way, it's up to you. Good luck!

Anonymous said...


Thank you for saying what I wanted to say, in a clearer way than I was able to communicate.

Anonymous #5

Jay said...

I'm picturing the foreigners doodle-interpretation of this post. "Now that I am a man I date like a man" bahaha- doodle! please!

Anonymous said...

I agree completely with you Emily. And I also thank you for putting into words what I was thinking.

Anonymous #1.

Washington said...

This is utterly ridiculous. Five dates doesn't mean a kiss... Mr. Fox, you sound like since the date didn't end in a kiss, you wasted all that time/money on this girl - that all the time/money was an investment in a kiss. If that is true, you are spending altogether too much time and money on kisses. They are much cheaper than that - if you find the right girls. But if you were actually interested in this girl, none of these things would be considered a waste. I don't mean to be harsh, because obviously I may have misinterpreted what you meant to say. But if she turned her head, then the moment wasn't right *yet*. In that case it is a shame on you because you didn't know that. I would hesitate to call you a man (as you so freely do in your posts), but at least you've taken one step in that general direction by actually going on dates.

Anonymous said...

"Obviously I may have misinterpreted what you meant to say..."


Anonymous said...

Wow. Some people are taking this post and themselves wayyy too seriously.